healthcare.gov. they gave a preview of what to expect on the sunday shows. >> the president has been poorly served in the implementation of his own signature legislation. >> the incompetence in building this is staggering. >> the rollout is the least of the problem. the rollout looks like a disaster, but in my state, most ohioans are going to pay higher costs. >> but over the weekend it was bill clinton who fired back defending the law and the site. >> look at america today. we've got to implement this health care law. the computer deal will get fixed up, don't worry about that. everybody has forgotten, by the way, that when president george w. bush, a republican put that medicare part d drug program in, it was more unpopular than the health care law and they had terrible problems with the computers. >> over the weekend, yet another problem emerged with the site. a critical data center was shut down that's managed by verizon's

terremark. it all comes as jeffrey zients promised healthcare.gov will be problem-free by the end of november. let me bring in carl bernstein and msnbc managing editor dafna linzer. good morning. >> good morning. >> don't you love bill clinton? oh, that computer thing, it will get fixed. but is he right? should we have expected that the problems that we've seen, carl, would happen? >> no, it's a colossal screw-up. at the same time that does not mean that the legitimacy of the affordable care act is undermined or should be undermined boy this. look, we've got to look at the fact that the republican party has made the central issue of its existence the idea that really health insurance for all people they're against. it's a bad thing to be against, on top of this which is like google 1.0. it's going to be rolled out, it's going to have glitches. there are people who should have done much better at the

technological end of this. but also the idea that one of our political parties is committed to burying something that can help millions of americans and help fix the fact that we spend 18% of gdp on health care is absurd. they ought to be working to make it work, the same way that when social security was enacted in the 30s and republicans were against it and voted against it, then they started working to help make it work. that's where they ought to be. >> there were some democrats who have come out and said, look, maybe we should delay this. you've got joe manchin and you see another problem with terremark over the weekend. does it feel like this is getting better, dafna? >> you know, i think that question remains to be seen. number one, it can only get better, frankly, as far as getting people in a place where they can actually sign up. remember the way this works, it's dependent on enough people being in the pool, so you want to have a system where people can sign up quickly. i know that they did expect more people to sign up, you know, later on in the process and not

right at the beginning, but still you need to have a critical mass in order for this to work. i think for democrats pushing on obama, i think that's probably a good thing. you know, last week richard blumenthal was on your show, you know, really issuing quite a tough warning to the white house about this. i think it's because democrats paid a pretty big price in 2010 for obama care. they lost the house. and i think democrats going into the midterms who are running in 2014 want to run on a success. they want people to have -- as carl said, they want people to have health care. they want to be able to show that this works. >> kathleen sebelius has been in the middle of this, carl, and is going before that committee on wednesday. what does she have to say? what can she do? >> i'm not in the -- giving cabinet secretaries advice. what has to be done is a show of recovered competence, and this has not been a very competent rollout. the president of the united states ought to be saying, look, we have screwed up in terms of how we have rolled this thing out.

we're going to learn from it. but let's not be defeated, and let's not be put over on the side and marginalized by the fact that the opposition party has no interest in seeing this succeed. that's what people need to know. that's what bill clinton is talking about. the opposition party wants this buried, not for reasons of americans being healthy but for ideological reasons. once again the country is being ill served just like the government shutdown over ideology over the national interests which is what keeps happening with the republicans on capitol hill. make this thing work. let the republicans get up and help it work the same way that part d works. look at medicaid, look at medicare, how they work. >> is the clock ticking in this sense, that it's critical for the success of obama care financially for a lot of young people who are generally healthy to get signed up. >> yes.

>> and if they get frustrated by this website or frustrated by the cost and decide to walk away and pay whatever it is, a minimal $95 fine, then what happens? >> but there are two reasons that this thing has run into trouble. one is the technical glitches and the lack of competence about the rollout, and the other is the rhetoric and the dishonesty about what the affordable care act is. because if these republicans are successful in mischaracterizing what it is and what it does and that big boogie man about socialized medicine about romney care which is really what it wanted. obama said we won't have a single payer plan. so what happens is that if they demonize it enough, more people don't sign up. and they bury it. and they make the premiums rise. they make the cost rise. it is absolutely outrageous that they're trying to undermine this

rather than make it work. give it a chance, make it google 1.2. make it 2.0. then if it fails, that's one thing. but here we've got to start at finally providing people who desperately need care and bringing down the costs of medical care. this is crazy. >> i want to bring in congressman g.k. butterfield, democrat from north carolina. congressman, morning. >> good morning. >> i think it has been fair to say it has been a horrible, terrible, very bad week for obama care and the rollout. you're on the committee that will question kathleen sebelius on wednesday. what does she have to say? how do you think the administration starts to turn this around? >> thank you for having me this morning. i think carl hit the nail on the head a moment ago. the affordable care act is the law of the land, it's fully operational. we have experienced some very difficult glitches with the website. it's embarrassing, but we're going to fix it. there are four components to the website. we had hearings last week and

the different vendors testified that each one of these components was working properly, but when they were integrated in an end-to-end test they did not produce the results that we need. so the website has been recalled for repair, but it will be back out the door by november 30th and all of our uninsured americans can then sign up and get ready for full coverage. >> well, if that happens, as you've suggested, as we saw bill clinton suggest, let's talk about the second challenge here, and i want to put up a "new york times" headline. quote, health site's woes could dissuade vital enrollee, the young and healthy. if people who desperate low wanting and need health care are having problems, it is possible that could turn off young people who are healthy. there's another ad that came out from that same group that put out those creepy uncle sam ads. let me play that for you. >> come on, chad, don't change the channel. this will be good for you. become part of the system, chad. one big happy system.

would the government lie to you, chad? would you buy it please? come on, chad, sign up. we've got to have you on the exchange. i'm wondering, congressman, taken together all the things that are going on and frankly a very well organized push against this that continues, are you afraid young people won't sign up and if they don't, that's going to be big trouble for obama care? >> let me tell you, the success of this program depends largely on full participation by the uninsured population, especially those who are young and uninsured. so many of our young citizens don't realize the importance of being fully insured, and that's our challenge, to make sure that the uninsured population understands that this coverage is affordable. for many it will be less than $100 a month and provide full insurance for these individuals and their families. and so it's our challenge. i wish the republicans would work with us in trying to get

the american people ready for the rollout of this -- of this coverage. >> do you think, congressman, at this point they are turned off? >> well, i think they are turned off because the far right wing has turned them off. there's been such a massive smear campaign about obama care for the last three years. they have not given the truth to those who need to hear. and so our challenge is to reach out to the republicans and say hey, guys, let's put the politics aside. let's get ready to make this thing work just as we did with medicare part d. bill clinton was absolutely correct, in 2003, we encountered similar challenges, but we made it work. dem krocrats and republicans wod together and now we are proud of medicare part d. >> let me ask you quickly too, dafna was mentioning 2010 when the republicans picked up 60 seats and there are democrats in red states like yours who are worried over losing over this. do you talk to those folks? are you worried about it? >> i talk to my friends who are up for re-election next year often. i can tell you that they understand the importance of

health care reform. they have supported it and embraced it. i believe that if they take the right message to the people of their respective states, they will have a resounding victory. the american people are not going to be fooled by the smear campaign. they're going to see through this an get ready to reelect a democrat senate. >> congressman g.k. butterfield, should so much. >> thank you. i want to get to the other big story and that's the nsa spying. i'm sure you saw some of these reports that the nsa tracked 60 million calls per month. new reports showing the german chancellor angela merkel may have been targeted going all the way back to 2002. carl, are we alienating our allies? >> yes. but we've got to separate some things here. the question of why particular leaders like merkel were somehow targed rather than just part of a larger vacuum cleaning operation is inexplicable so far. we need to have some answers. why were these leaders targeted?

it does not make sense. >> and did the president know about it? >> and did the president know about it is an absolutely important question to answer. at the same time, we know from what has been revealed as a result of snowden that the nsa has been doing this incredible vacuum cleaner operation now for a long time in which all these digits from communications all over the world are for good reason sifted, because the terrorist threat is real. and at the same time we need real safeguards. and what snowden has done is to show that we don't have the safeguards that we need, that we need better courts in terms of warrants and how this information is used. we need better oversight, and at the same time we need -- look, secrecy, excessive secrecy about what the government does, not about necessarily what terrorist is being uncovered, that's one thing, but excessive secrecy

about the program itself, why the hell would angela merkel be -- her cell phone, why would we be looking at that. >> at some point you have to do a cost benefit analysis. >> well, not a cost benefit analysis, we need an answer. >> you have to say is it worth -- >> no, no, we need an answer of who did this, why was it done, why did it start in the bush years, why didn't somebody -- maybe there's something we don't know about merkel. >> and what about -- >> there's something total crazy about this. >> what about the president, what would be worse if he knew or didn't know, dafna. >> it would be worse if he knew, trust me. >> what i see today is clear signs that the white house, i think, is messaging both to allies and certainly from the stories that i saw emerging in the papers today with internal reviews and external reviews, they're very, very concerned about this. and i think that there are some important signs out there. keith alexander, the head of the nsa, is going to be stepping down. he made an awfully strange youtube video this weekend where

he sort of is explaining in this odd way how terrible reporters are. that just doesn't seem to be the same kind of message that we're getting from the white house, which is a president that says he's welcoming this debate, that he wants to talk about it, that he's obviously very concerned about not just the snowden reports but really the ramifications of how allies are responding and how americans are responding to the way their data is being sifted and used, the way they're being tracked and traced. i think these are really big issues. i think if there are signs from the white house that they are very concerned about what the nsa is up to, that's probably a good thing for everyone. >> and then you have republicans who are saying to the president embrace this. this is all legitimate stuff. >> look, we have to start from the premise that terrorism is real and that we now have the basic tools of investigation today in police work in cities not just for terrorism and in terms of terrorism on an international global scale, the way that we fight this is

through information-gathering that has to do with digits. that's what nsa does. that's what it has been doing for years and years. now it has capabilities that are frightening. the new york city police department has capabilities that are frightening in this area. what we need to do and the congress of the united states need to do and the administration needs to do is put some guidelines in place and let people of the country know what the guidelines are, that they're not going to be abrogated. it's a big debate that we need to have in this country. if there's a service that snowden has performed there, it's in starting this debate. at the same time, we need -- i want to go back to this thing about foreign leaders. we need an explanation, whether it comes on background, the president doesn't want to reveal certain things, that's one thing. why in the world was her phone the target of this? this is not part of a vacuum cleaner, this is specific to

merkel. why? i'm going to presume that there's some information that led them to do this. well, maybe we need to know what that information is, as difficult as it might be to reveal. but we need to know what the hell has been going on here. >> i think it's just republicans coming out suddenly and defending these programs. at the very beginning of the snowden revelations, there was a hard, hard push from the white house that has completely vanished. and people like mike rogers is on his own now. >> dafna linzer, carl bernstein, great. thanks so much. under cover of darkness and away from cameras, the man convicted in the death of michael jackson was released from jail overnight. conrad murray delivered the fatal dose of propofol to the king of pop in 2009. he served two years of a four-year sentence because of a california law that cut his sentence in half for good behavior, created to cut down on prison overcrowding. >> i know that he's out safely.

i'm greatly relieved. i'm thrilled because i know firsthand how horrific this has been, what an ordeal it's been. it's really been a nightmare and he's handled it with dignity. >> murray hopes to get his medical license back and resume his practice. the hangover continues weeks after the government shutdown. now new details on how it will continue to hit all of us where it hurts. we'll have more on what you need to know that has top economists worried. safe driving bonus check. rock beats scissors! [ chuckles ] wife beats rock. and with two checks a year, everyone wins. [ female announcer ] switch today and get two safe driving bonus checks a year for driving safely. only from allstate. call 866-906-8500 now. [ dennis ] zach really loves his new camera. problem is...this isn't zach. it's a friend of a friend who was at zach's party and stole his camera. but zach's got it covered... with allstate renters insurance. [ female announcer ] protect your valuables for as low as $4 a month when you add renters insurance to your allstate auto policy. call 866-906-8500 now. what are you doing? we're switching car insurance.

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it could take until march for the economy to fully recover from the effects of the 16-day government shutdown. in a new "usa today" survey of top economists, 63% say the repeated budget battles over the past few years have hurt the economy some or a lot. one economist says, quote, we're falling down a fiscal flight of stairs and we're bouncing from one step to the next, one crisis

to the next. it's been estimated the shutdown cost the u.s. economy $24 billion, but at least taxpayers will get some of that back. the labor department says federal workers who collected unemployment benefits will have to give the money back since they will be getting paid retroactively. let me bring in editor in chief "the economist" john micklethwait. more than half of the economists are less optimistic about growth prospects than they were three months ago. could it take until march to get over the effects we felt from this? >> i think it can. i was one of those people who were skeptical about that and thought it was just a political crisis. but i spent the weekend with some american business people and they really feel that they can see the numbers in terms of consumer confidence. and the underlying thing is if you're thinking about buying stuff and then you see all this chaos in washington, it comes back. and it's very sad, because america, at least in the short term, doesn't have an enormous

problem in that way but it has this huge underlying problem. you cannot continue to tax as if you're a small government country and spend as if you're a big government country. eventually that's going to come back and hit you. >> so this can last until march but in the meantime we can have another crisis and almost certainly will. january 15th is the next budget deadline. february 7th is when we need to raise the borrowing limit. when you were talking to those folks, how nervous are they about those deadlines? >> i think they're getting irritated as well as nervous. that makes a difference. you sit there and you're trying to make plans, you're trying to build a factory, you're trying to hire people. would you do that if you weren't quite sure what was going to happen in terms of the government, whether you're going to get hit, for instance, because there might be a demand to close the gap really quickly. well, who's going to -- who are they going to go for? they're going to go for business and that, i think, is a big thing. businesses react to consumers' confidence and they feed off each other. >> there have been some bright

spots in the economy. stocks near an all-time high. the housing market does seem to be in at least some phase of recovery. it's easier for businesses and some consumers to get a loan. where would this go, though, if honestly if they could get their act together in washington? >> where would it go if they could get its act together? it would go a long way. america has a very good private sector economy. it has a useless public sector and useless public sector finances. if you could sort out the second, the possibilities in the first are amazing. you look at american business against other areas of the globe, you've sorted out our banks pie most people's standards. you've got the fracking behind you. you've got the manufacturing picking up on things. you've got some elements whereby 3-d printing and other forms of manufacturing will pull jobs back to america. by contrast, we go to europe, that is a whole different problem. >> let me ask you about that and switch gears because you and i

were talking on the break and carl bernstein was asking the question why would her phone in particular be targeted. you were saying that she's incredibly nice, funny, but don't mess with her. am i putting words in your mouth? >> no, that's entirely accurate. she is arguarguably, the most g i've politician in the world at the moment. tactically she's the cleverest. she's won every election she's gone for. she controls europe, albeit in a slightly negative way. nothing can happen without her say-so. she does have this record. this story of this woman came from east germany, she rose up in this quite tough, very sexist party. she reached the top and has put up -- she's got rid of a lot of people who irritated her. >> but with very strong members of astasi. >> i think it would be amazing if the french weren't bugging everyone's homes. for the germans the issue of

bugging brings back difficult memories and not the least of her, she came from east germany. so i don't think she will react to this in a -- she's good at pushing things to one side, merkel, and then taking revenge later. >> john micklethwait, we will watch. thanks for coming on the show. it's great to see you. a massive manhunt still under way in oklahoma. four prison inmates managed to escape on sunday. as for how they got out, a trap door above a shower that took them through the plumbing system. >> worked their way in around the air conditioning units and the plumbing and knocked down a couple of rebarb concrete walls and came out at one of our side rooms where the fire depression units and everything was. >> so it gets even more interesting. authorities say they discovered this weekend that several of those trap doors were not sealed. so they were in the process of welding them shut. they got all of them but two.

the title is happy birthday hillary but the message is this. quote, it's hard to imagine a democrat of national stature more ill equipped to speak to this populist mood than hillary clinton. the attacks continue. hillary clinton hasn't even said she's running for president. more on the fight against her and who's in line if she doesn't run. when we made our commitment to the gulf, bp had two big goals:

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you feel that in your muscles? i do... drink water. it's a long story. well, not having branches let's us give you great rates and service. i'd like that. a new way to bank. a better way to save. ally bank. your money needs an ally. republicans are using hillary clinton's birthday as an excuse to go after her. the rnc putting out a press release saying clinton's own base is not showing her the love for 2016. and the conservative campaign committee released an ad hitting clinton and president obama over benghazi. take a listen. >> well, i know there was a cover-up. i had to get my information from outside sources because the government would not tell me, and hillary said what difference does it make? it makes one big difference to me. my son was killed. >> well, it doesn't stop there.

there's bring in aisha, and republican strategist noelle is here as well. by the time the campaign gets under way, assuming hillary is running and we don't know that yet, it will have been three years since benghazi. why are republicans continuing on this? >> well, chris, this is a major deal, and this happened under hillary clinton's watch. so if you don't think republicans -- if you don't think our party is going to hammer the fact that benghazi happened and the mess-ups and the flub-ups under her administration, if you don't think republicans are going to hammer her if she runs in 2016, you're out of your mind. of course we are going to keep hammering this. this was a huge debacle. >> obviously they have been hammering her. how much might benghazi hurt? >> you know, they have -- it's really unfortunate how the republicans have really tried to politicize this issue, specifically because hillary clinton was at the helm. the benghazi attacks were one of

many unfortunate attacks on american embassies that we've seen since september 11th. quite frankly, the only thing that was done wrong was that there wasn't enough security at the compound in benghazi. what republicans don't want to talk about is the reason there wasn't enough security because they completely cut funding for the folks who would have secured the compound. so that's something that is going to continue to come up as well is the hypocrisy there of republicans not wanting to talk about what their own role was in those attacks. just to go back to the fact that here we are for the birthday and they're celebrating her birthday, it's no surprise that this early out from a presidential election republicans are talking about hillary clinton attempting to attack hillary clinton because gallup has showed that she is one of the most admired women or the most admired woman in the world. >> and she was with you guys last week at the center upon american progress. >> she was. >> and i thought as i listened she sounded a lot like a candidate. for example, she kept using the word "progressive."

>> john and nera and i have been discussing what it means to be a progressive in america and in the world for years now. to build the case for a progressive agenda. to have cap at the table making the case for progressive policies. for bold, new, progressive policies. progressive ideas have helped make this country the greatest force for human liberty, dignity and opportunity the world has ever known. >> and to your point, aisha, among other polls there was one looking at the primary state of new hampshire. hillary had a commanding lead. vice president joe biden and freshman massachusetts senator elizabeth warren were a distant second and third respectively. but is this a done deal or are there real challengers out there? >> well, i think that, you know, what's exciting is that the democrats have a longer bench of challengers who are actually credible and who have great ideas about how to move the

country forward. what we know is that the republicans are really fixated right now on hillary clinton, who isn't their candidate, because they don't really have a great bench of ideas or people. most of the things that they believe in, most of the policies that they're trying to move in congress actually do the middle class harm in this country. they hurt the middle class. they're attempting to take health care away from people with pre-existing conditions, to cut education, et cetera. so i think that it is telling that you see the republicans not focusing on who their bench might be because they just don't have a very long list of ideas that americans care about. >> the tiers of potential candidates if hillary decides not to run, you can see biden to andrew cuomo, martin o'malley, elizabeth warren. noelle, do these potential candidates scare republicans? who do republicans least want to run against? >> they do not want to run against hillary clinton, and the reason why, there are two

reasons. a, you've got the woman factor, the female factor, and, b, she is going to dry up so much money. in this past election with obama and romney, it was a billion dollar race. if you don't think with hillary clinton getting into this race it's going to be a $2 billion race you're crazy. >> $2 billion, you really think that? >> yeah, i do. an that's not just saying into the campaign, but the dnc, rnc and several super pacs, this is going to be hell on wheels. i think hillary clinton poses the biggest threat against us, the gop, and whoever we're going to put up. elizabeth warren is seen and viewed as so radical left i think that she will be a lot easier for someone in the gop to beat. howard dean, i mean, you know, all they have to do is keep replaying that yeehaw tape over and over and over again. i think he's lost a lot of credibility with some other things that he said about obama

care too. >> great conversation, thank you. >> thanks. checking the news feed this morning, a funeral is getting under way for colleen ritzer, the 24-year-old massachusetts teacher who was allegedly killed by one of her students last week. over the weekend, his mother released a statement saying both her family and the ritzer's family were changed forever by the murder. hundreds of mourners attended the beloved teacher's viewing sunday. her family set up a memorial scholarship fund to benefit high school candidates who want to become teachers. chris brown facing the possibility of serious jail time once again. a fistfight in washington, d.c., landed him in jail over the weekend. this afternoon he'll go before a judge facing felony assault charges. he's already on probation stemming from that 2009 assault against his then girlfriend, row anna. the phone hacking trial of two former editors of the "news of the world" starts today. they face accusations of hacking voice mails of celebrities and

top politicians while working at the newspaper owned by rupert murdoch. a panel of 80 potential jurors will be brought into court this morning. the selection process could last most of the day. check it out, the ohio state university marching band has done it again. in a nod to hollywood, the band played the superman theme forming the man of steel going into a phone booth, getting that famous cape and flying right to a building. the man then took on harry potter flying on a broomstick maybe for a game of quidditch. and the theme of jurassic park was the inspiration for this tyrannosaurus rex. yes, this band is incredibly impressive from my home state of ohio. how about a chardonnay to go with that slurpy. 7-eleven is going upscale. i can see it, candlelight at home and you take in the drive and you stop by the 7-eleven to pick up a bottle of vino, brian.

>> hey, what's hotter than a big bite an a bottle of chardonnay? nothing says i love you like -- by the way, that ohio state stuff is distressing. my brother and sister-in-law both are buckeyes so now i've got to hear this from them? oy! anyway, you're right about the 7-eleven story, chris. they're going into what they call ultra premium wines. that's their term, not ours. they'll range in place from $15 to $20 so you can debate amongst yourself whether that's ultra premium. the reality is 7-eleven has been selling alcohol for a long time, mostly beer and low-end wines. they want to make itself the one-stop shop for all things romance. >> okay. cnbc's brian sullivan, thank you so much. if you're in the mood for a horror flick this halloween, check out some of the big name celebrities who got their start in horror movies. ben affleck starred in buffy the vampire slayer.

charlize theron, maybe you remember johnny depp in the "nightmare on elm street." michelle williams was in "halloween h 20 and george croony had a role in "return to horror high." for the full list check it out on jansing.msnbc.com. it's not the "juggle a bunch of rotating categories" card. it's not the "sign up for rewards each quarter" card. it's the no-games, no-messing-'round, no-earning-limit-having, do-i-look-like-i'm-joking, turbo-boosting, heavyweight-champion- of-the-world cash back card. this is the quicksilver cash back card from capital one. unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere, every damn day. now, tell me, what's in your wallet? add brand new belongings from nationwide insurance and we'll replace stolen or destroyed items with brand-new versions. we put members first. join the nation. ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪

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keeping up with these two is more than a full time job, and i don't have time for unreliable companies. angie's list definitely saves me time and money. for over 18 years we've helped people take care of the things that matter most. join today. the wave to legalize same-sex marriage hits hawaii today in the state that pioneered the movement more than 20 years afgo. the governor has called a rare special session of the legislature to consider a bill to allow same-sex couples to wed. >> the issue has evolved over time and i think that's why we're at the conditions that we are today where we're ready to have this special session to address the question of marriage equity. >> if the measure passes, hawaii would become the 15th state to legalize same-sex marriage. though the battle is far from over and it's being waged on a lot of fronts right now. let me bring in richard

socarides, the former president of equality matters. good to see you. >> good morning. >> if someone had said to you a couple of years ago we'd be where we are now with the same-sex marriage fight, would you have believed it? >> no. i don't think anyone could be predicted it. >> the pace is unbelievable. >> the pace is amazing. there are now 14 states and the district of columbia that have marriage equality, and fully one-third of all americans now live in states where gay people and lesbians can get married. >> a key part of the debate in hawaii, which i think has been the rub a lot and has national implications is the difference between civil unions and a full marriage. what is the difference? tell us why this fight has become so important. >> well, civil unions are different because they are defined by the legislature to include some rights of marriage, but not necessarily all rights of marriage. >> so give me an example. >> well, there could be va varieties of inheritance rights.

now the supreme court has ruled last summer that if you're married, you get federal benefits. if you have a civil union, you don't get any of the federal benefits so you can't file a joint tax return, you can't get social security survivor benefits, so the truth is, is that the effect -- one of the unintended consequences of the supreme court ruling last summer that was so dramatic was that civil unions now mean less because marriage means so much more. >> well, four months after that supreme court decision that you just said, there are now four other states where same-sex marriage cases are pending. three of those states could legalize gay marriage by the end of the year. opponents say this matter should go to a public vote. they say in these states they need to let it be decided by the majority. why not? >> well, because rights in this country, the rights of minorities, have never traditionally been put up to public vote. when we were fighting for the women's right to vote, we wouldn't have put that up to the public vote of men. or when we are fighting against

slavery or racial integration, we wouldn't have put that up to public votes. there are certain rights that are guaranteed everybody under our constitution and those should not be up to the public to decide by voter preference or by whim and should not be subjected to the advertising and so forth that happens in political campaigns. these are rights that all americans have, equal protection rights guaranteed under the constitution, and shouldn't be put up to public vote. >> it's been so interesting that part of the conversation has become the sochi olympics. there has been a big push there to get attention paid to areas outside the united states where this right does not exist. here's how one gay rights activist put it. >> i think holding these olympics in sochi with these laws is like holding an olympics in joe hanesburg at the height of apartheid. it's going to put incredible scrutiny on the russian government. it's going to force governments and people to speak out. >> but has this furthered the

cause in the sense of it really does have people talking and has raised an awareness beyond their own individual state or beyond the united states? >> i think there's going to be a lot of focus on it. especially we're 101 days today away from the opening of the winter olympics in sochi. and russia has a horrible hate campaign aimed at gay people in that country. there's no bigger stage than the olympics. so i think there is going to be a lot of focus on it. there's been calls now for the sponsors, the big american and multi national companies that sponsor the games to take a stand, to call for the repeal of this law, to help some of the gay rights organizations in russia. there will be a lot of attention to this. and it's really the new frontier. right now the gay rights movement in the u.s. has seen so much progress, so quickly, but is it mature enough, is it compassionate enough to extend that reach outside of our borders and focus on these global issues, which are in some ways more dramatic, right?

there are still many countries where you can be jailed just for being gay. we don't have that here in this country. and that will be the next frontier of gay rights. >> richard socarides, so good to see you. thanks for coming in. overseas, saudi arabian women are fighting for their right to drive by defiantly getting behind the wheel. now, there is no law that explicitly prohibits saudi women from driving, but the government refuses to issue them licenses, so dozens of women in a grassroots campaign went for a drive and then posted videos of themselves on social media. opponents say lifting the ban would give women too much freedom and could increase premarital sex and adultery. hard to believe that there are countries that rank even lower on women's rights than saudi arabia. the "washington post" has a list of some of the most ridiculous restrictions on women around the world. in yemen a woman is considered only half a witness at a new trial. get this, women can't leave the house there without her

husband's permission. in saudi arabia and vatican city, women cannot vote. in saudi arabia and mow rocco, rape victims can be charged with crimes. well, from steven tyler to lenny kravitz, stars are sharing their condolences for rock legend lou reed. it would be tough to overstate his influence on generations of musicians, though his only top 40 song is what you're hearing now, "walk on the wild side." "rolling stone" said as a guitarist and songwriter, reed brought a whole new lir cull honesty to rock 'n' roll. reed had a liver transplant this year. he was 71 years old. today's tweet of the day comes from rosie perez. this one hurts. when new york was still cool, lou was in the center of it. he will be missed terribly. [ male announcer ] pepcid® presents: the burns family dinner. why would i take one pepcid® when i could take tums® throughout the day when my heartburn comes back? 'cause you only have to take one...

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to politics now where the problem-plague ed obama care website has a new look. remember this woman that was prominently featured? she's been replaced. we're not so sure who she is still. now you can see four icons that explain how to sign up for coverage. meantime kathleen sebelius got the "saturday night live" treatment this weekend. >> millions of americans are visiting healthcare.gov, which is great news. unfortunately, the site was only designed to handle six users at a time. have you tried restarting your computer? sometimes it helps to turn the computer off and then turn it back on. we don't know why, it just does. >> big endorsement for chris christie in his bid for a second term as new jersey governor from former nba star and garden state native, shaq. >> i don't endorse many politicians, but chris christie is different. he's working with me to bring jobs back to our cities and on a

new program to help kids in tough neighborhoods get ahead. >> you folks are full of opinions on today's must read. our facebook question is what's the coolest song ever sung? mark sherman posted "deacon blues" by steely dan. anything by steely dan is cool. samantha thomas picked "unchained melody" by the righteous brothers. it's on our facebook page so let us know what you think. that's going to do it for this hour of "jansing & co." thomas roberts is up next and i'll see you back here tomorrow. ] i have a big meeting when we land, but i am so stuffed up, i can't rest. [ male announcer ] nyquil cold and flu liquid gels don't unstuff your nose. they don't? alka seltzer plus night fights your worst cold symptoms, plus has a decongestant. [ inhales deeply ] oh. what a relief it is.

of their type 2 diabetes with non-insulin victoza®. for a while, i took a pill to lower my blood sugar, but it didn't get me to my goal. so i asked my doctor about victoza®. he said victoza® is different than pills. victoza® is proven to lower blood sugar and a1c. it's taken once-a-day, any time, and comes in a pen. and the needle is thin. victoza® is not for weight loss, but it may help you lose some weight. victoza® is an injectable prescription medicine that may improve blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes when used with diet and exercise. it is not recommended as the first medication to treat diabetes and should not be used in people with type 1 diabetes

or diabetic ketoacidosis. victoza® has not been studied with mealtime insulin. victoza® is not insulin. do not take victoza® if you have a personal or family history of medullary thyroid cancer, multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if you are allergic to victoza® or any of its ingredients. symptoms of a serious allergic reaction may include: swelling of face, lips, tongue, or throat, fainting or dizziness, very rapid heartbeat, problems breathing or swallowing, severe rash or itching. tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. serious side effects may happen in people who take victoza®, including inflammation of the pancreas (pancreatitis), which may be fatal. stop taking victoza® and call your doctor right away if you have signs of pancreatitis, such as severe pain that will not go away in your abdomen or from your abdomen to your back, with or without vomiting. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take and if you have any medical conditions. taking victoza® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar.

the most common side effects are nausea, diarrhea, and headache. some side effects can lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney problems. if your pill isn't giving you the control you need ask your doctor about non-insulin victoza®. it's covered by most health plans. in the nation, what's precious to you is precious to us. ♪ love is strange so when coverage really counts, count on nationwide insurance. we put members first. join the nation. ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ good morning, i'm thomas roberts. topping our agenda today, glitch-gate. this week is going to be all about wednesday, and that is the day kathleen sebelius will testify on capitol hill about the issues with the federal exchange site and president obama will take his enrollment push on the road now to massachusetts. first overnight the health care website got a whole new look. it now features a new four-way

enrolling link. this after a crucial component crashed yesterday taking the entire website down with it, renewing republican calls to delay the next big step. >> if you really believe that the progressives really believe the government ought to be running this much of the economy, then at least wait a year on the whole thing and fix it to where it's somewhat effective. >> let's talk about how we can make it work, and if there are problems with them -- with it, let's fix it along the way. i think that's how most americans feel about this program. >> so when it rains, it pours. in the last 24 hours the obama white house has been dealing not only with the website crash but also a new offering from edward snowden. a major spanish newspaper reporting today that the american spy agency may have been listening to at least 60 million phone calls in spain. this week two representatives from german chancellor angela merkel will visit washington. their leader is calling for talks about the nsa's